On Friday: May 21, 1999 6PM PST
Edited by Anne-Mal

We socialize a bit before the chat.

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] Do you mind if I keep the chicken story from last night in Steve's Log?

[LizBennett] Not a'tall! Why should I mind?

[CleoK] Chicken story?

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] Liz had a little problem on Mindy night!

+ Mindy has arrived.

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] MOM! HIDE!!!

[Lorna] Wow, heavyweight authorship AND the Mother Of ALL, cool!

[Mindy] Lets just hope I can stay awake :)

[LizBennett] Have you, um, counted the spoons yet?

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] That's what happens when you have kids Mindy!

[LizBennett] I had *nothing* to do with the broken Ming vase....

[CleoK] That was a vase?

[LizBennett] It was *already* broken. I just, um, nudged it, and it fell to bits!

[bashful] Great party Tuesday night Anne, when does Mindy get back?

[Mindy] Sheesh! I get one out of the house, and I end up with all of you right back in!

[LizBennett] It was just a cheap replica, right? And the stain in the white carpet? I had *nothing* to do with that either! It was Anne! She is so clumsy!

[CleoK] We could stain the rest of the carpet the same color, that would fix it! :)

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] No it was Chrissy fault!

[bashful] Mindy, post my stories now and I will tell all.

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] Hey! Bash that's not fair!

[bashful] Fair smair!

[Lorna] Bash, you can't mean it!

[Mindy] Hmm. It's a deal Bash, give me the juicy details!

[bashful] Wait, Anne just whispered a better offer.

[Mindy] XoYo has just arrived! Hmm, there goes the neighborhood!

[LizBennett] We sound like the Philharmonic tuning up.

[XoYo] Someone_______

[CleoK] Or Phil's harmonica!

[Mindy] That bad?

[CleoK] :)

[XoYo] Someone please nudge me if I start snoring. It's _way_ past my bedtime. ;)

[CleoK] That's okay XoYo, I have my eyes dilated from the eye doctor so at least I *look* awake :)

[XoYo] Cleo, that makes the matchsticks I'm using, sound primitive!

[CleoK] Matchsticks? You're not giving yourself a hot foot, are you?

[Lorna] XY, you have a bedtime on a Friday night??

[XoYo] Lorna, I'm getting old. I can't keep up the pace of late nights any more.

[Lorna] Oh, but then aren't we all!

[Mindy] It's been a wild and crazy week, one I care not to repeat!

[LizBennett] Those security X-rays will zap your lap-top every time, Mindy.

[Mindy] It only got the one file I needed on the hard drive and the PC card back-up both. I ran it about 5 times for practice before I left, first time I ever had a file get mugged and I travel all over with powerpoint files!

[LizBennett] Dom-da-dom-dom! Where's....Sapphire?

+ Sapphire has arrived.

[Lorna] YEAH!

[LizBennett] What timing!

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] On the dot!

[Sapphire] Sorry I'm late. So, let's ROCK!

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] Let's take about two minutes to give her a general greeting while she gets an opening statement ready!

[Mindy] Trumpets blare!

[LizBennett] Cannons salute!

[Mindy] Horns honk!

[Sapphire] I DO make an opening statement? Thanks for the warning!

[Mindy] Church bells ring!

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] That's why it's called performance art Sapphire!!

[Regal] We all dance around!

[bashful] An annoying baby begins to cry!

[Regal] Nukes explode!

[sue] The band strikes up a tune!

[bashful] Luke Skywalker and Han Solo walk down the . . . wait wrong scene!

[Sapphire] BTW I'm struggling with a sticky keyboard tonight, I spilled some soda, so please forbear.

[LizBennett] The curtain goes up, as everyone gets quiet.....

[Sapphire] First, I want to thank everyone who has made it here tonight! I am honored to be included in the list of authors that Anne has set up, for I just throw HTML around. I'm just glad that so many talented people let me bring their work to the community! So, as they say, on with the show!

[CleoK] Hi Sapphire. Who was the first author you hosted on your site?

[Sapphire] At first, I didn't have any featured authors at all, just stories that moved me one way or the other, in other words, stories that made me hot! I believe that Eddie Glover was the first, but he was quickly followed by Waldo.

[Lorna] Hi., Do you have any plans to migrate your FTP story lists to a page format? (Like Fictionmania)

[Sapphire] I would love to, but I can't keep up with the site as it is! I do this whole thing by myself, the main site, the SRU archive, the Bates Saga and Sapphire's Channel. I don't think I can even find the time to expand more than those, hell, I can't even keep up with what I got going now, sorry!

[Carol__Collins] Originally, we only had sex.stories.tg to provide us stories. Several years ago, your site was the first TG web page I found, when did you create it?

[Sapphire] Well, if I can remember correctly I started it 6 years ago as an FTP site, then about 5 months after that I changed over to a web site.

[SteveZ] Do you have any plans to do any more story contests?

[Sapphire] I would love to, but I'm embarrassed. The last couple of contests happened during the bookstore debacle and I never sent the prizes out to the winners! While I still have the books I promised, I don't have the winners snail mail addresses anymore!

[SteveZ] I want to thank you for being the first site to post one of my stories in the summer of 97 and the help that you gave me in polishing up the story!

[sue] Thank you for being one of the first ones to start an on-line free TG archive! What do you think will be the concerns of system administrators of such sites like yours in the future?

[Sapphire] The biggest problem is finding HOSTS! I have gone through more than a couple of web hosts until Mindy rescued me. TG Fiction doesn't fit the mainstream idea of fiction, to them we are just PORN. Many sites exclude "adult" content, those that don't cost a fortune that is. Mindy is a Godsend. She "saved" the site when my other ISP told me to shut it down NOW! Thanks Mindy!

If your going to have a free and open site, like mine and Mindy's, the cost can mount. Frankly I can't imagine how Mindy affords it.

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] Are we just porn?

[Sapphire] I don't believe so, but others put our types of sites at least in the "Adult" genre. You do have to admit that many of our stories contain sex scenes and the fact that the whole "TG Thing" freaks people out.

[bashful] Many mainstream romance novels contain sex scenes more explicit than found here! Do you select the stories on your site or is it open to unsolicited contributions?

[Sapphire] I pick them all, one way or another, right now. The featured authors were chosen by me and so were all the authors featured in the e- zine. I haven't had time to pick others, like I said before. I just can't keep up now, adding more would be impossible without cutting out things like eating and sleeping.

[Mindy] What is the most enjoyable part about running Sapphire's Place?

[Sapphire] Two things and I don't know which is more important to me. Sharing with the community these great stories and getting to read so many of them first! When I started in the TG community, it was the stories that saved me! I got most of the stories from BBS's. One that was in NJ and Mindy's. Boy, was my phone bill HUGE! I wanted others to have the same opportunity that I did. I just wanted to "pay back" those I couldn't thank in person.

[CleoK] You were going to write some stories yourself and post them, Sapphire, what happened?

[Sapphire] Yes I was, but I'm soooooo unsure of my writing talent that I hesitate. I also come back to the time thing, what should I give up to finish and polish a story, breathing?

[Chrissy] What is your favorite kind of story?

[Sapphire] One with a slow transformation, but not just only that. I really like stories about how the hero/ine copes with the change and if the authors can throw in some of my favorite kinks, well so much the better!

[LizBennett] Hello Sapphire! Elizabeth Bennett here. I'm a relative newcomer to TG sites in general. Do you think that there is an increased interest in, and demand for, TG fiction? (And not just because so many more people have access through the Internet now.)

[Sapphire] I think so, almost every TV show and movie at least has a "Drag" scene! My e-zine subscriber base has climbed over 500! Is that growing interest or just the growing Internet population, I couldn't tell you.

[Lorna] Do you see TG-ISP's in our future? Like what porn sites are doing, with their associated funding issues?

[Sapphire] Maybe it's our free sites that prevent that! I know that a T1 line in my area would run me over $1000 US a month, how could anyone afford it! While I have everything I would need to set up a system, it's the bandwidth that would kill me, not the tech stuff. Hell, I have setup two ISP's, but I don't have the capital to start my own. Maybe our "giving away" the product is what is stopping others. I wish I could talk to those that are running a pay site.

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] How important is it for people to click the banners on your site?

[Sapphire] It's really important! I don't have a "regular" job, for I 'm a computer consultant in a rural county. The little that I get from people clicking the banners, helps pay for my connect time. I understand that they are rotten sites to go to, but the non-sex advertisers refuse to allow me to host their banners because of the content. I have a hope of one day getting real sponsors, but nothing yet.

[sue] How much impact do you think the "Joe Bates" saga had on spurring the writing and direction of other TG authors?

[Sapphire] I must get a message or so a month telling me what the Bates story means to them, for many people assume I wrote it! Gods, I wish I had the talent! I think the fact that it's unfinished has stimulated many to try their hand at it.

[bashful] Besides the time constraints and money, what is the biggest problem you face running your site?

[Sapphire] It used to be getting authors to write the "next chapter" in time for the next update. Now I think it's wondering if anyone notices that it still exists! While my "S.O." knows about the site, she most times considers it the "other woman". The road has been long and hard, sometimes I'm just so tired.

[Carol__Collins] When are you going to update Sapphire Place again?

[Sapphire] I'm hoping to have the next issue of the e-zine out this next week. As for the site, I have so much I want to do that I am uncertain where to start. Just updating Eddie's section will take a while! I would really like to change the "look" of the site proper, but then again maybe I'm just too used to the way it looks now.

[Carol__Collins] I am sure that we all understand how short time is. I was just hoping. I like the pink satin look, too. Are you interested in posting the discarded chapters of Mind Swapping?

[Sapphire] I would LOVE to post the chapters!

[CleoK] Sapphire, I liked that cartoon you made and put on your site. Have you made anymore?

[Sapphire] I did that a LOOOONG time ago, I posted it and a few others to a couple BBS's. I then had a major hard drive crash, wiped out all of my copies! I couldn't find them on-line again. Nostromo found the "Fonda" one a couple years ago on a German BBS! Wow, can you believe it! I don't even know if the others even exist anymore.

[Lorna] I want to thank you for opening the Web to us TGers, when only sources were limited to Empathy Press and the BBS's, Mindy's especially! Do you feel like a pioneer?

[Sapphire] Pioneer? You make me sound like Daniel Boone!

[Lorna] If the moccasin fits?

[Sapphire] I don't know. I'm the type of person who if they can't find what they want, they just do it themselves! Pioneer? No, just too impatient to wait for someone else to do it!

[Mindy] How much hate mail to do you get?

[Sapphire] The only hate mail I ever get is from readers who think I don't update fast enough! Once I posted a story from a Sandy Thomas book, unknowing to me of course! She went sort of ballistic, I can understand why, but the message was the only flame I ever got. Oh wait, the bookstore folding created lots of angry mail too.

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] A lot of authors have talked about you editing their stories for them. What do you get out of doing it?

[Sapphire] Was it that they wanted me to edit for them or were they complaining that I edited them? Sometimes I correct their spelling, but I don't think I make many changes with out asking them first.

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] They weren't complaining but explaining how you helped them out. In other words, why did you do it for them?

[Sapphire] Why? I like to imagine myself as publishing a magazine of TG Fiction and I want to give the readers the best stories I can!

[Carol__Collins] You mentioned something about a bookstore. Could you elaborate?

[Sapphire] Well before Mags Inc. opened their on-line bookstore I sold Reluctant Press and Sandy Thomas books from my site. I was trying to find some way to help with the expenses. Well, I lost my blouse and almost my home! I had overseas money orders that my bank couldn't cash and shipping charges that were eating up any profit. I'm afraid that some orders went unfulfilled.

[Carol__Collins] Seventy five percent of new businesses go bust. Every entrepreneur has been in the same boat. Welcome to the club!

[Sapphire] I'm real sorry for the loss to others, but is was so bad that I couldn't pay my rent for a couple or months.

[Chrissy] What is your favorite film or television show with TG elements in it?

[Sapphire] "Turnabout Intruder" from Star Trek. The movie Leo/Cleo is outstanding too! But that is a tough question, because most leave me wanting more and they NEVER do things the way I would! That's the problem when your degree is in TV production, you always think you can do it better!

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] On your site you seem to highlight more continuous stories. Are you planning to have more and what are you looking for?

[Sapphire] Yes, I think that that format gives us all a better chance to find something we like. I like long series in non-TG books too. I always look for good stories, just started a new author/series last issue. What I worry about is writers not "finishing up" with a storyline. Raven's MIB is one of those, I'm praying he'll finish it for me and for his fans too!

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] Raven is at a wedding or he would be here. If someone wants to do one for you, what do they have to do?

[Sapphire] Just send me a note! I'm open to anything except what would not land me in jail for kiddie porn, that is a problem I don't need!

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] Okay, we are opening it up to everyone. Just remember that Sapphire is still in the spotlight!

[Sapphire] Fire away!

[Chrissy] As a follow up to my last question. What is your favorite published book that has TG elements in it and who is your favorite published author?

[Sapphire] My favorite book, "I Will Fear No Evil" by Robert Heinlein. My favorite author is Jack Chalker, in particular the Soul Rider series.

[MonicaS] Sapphire, how much time does an e-zine issue cost you?

[Sapphire] Each story takes between a hour or more to format, but some take a LOT of reformatting to go on as a web page! As the number of stories rise, it seems to take more and more time.

[Mindy] Knowing what you do now, would you still create Sapphire's Place again if you had to do it over again?

[Sapphire] What, give up this life of a celebrity! How could I live without it!

[Lorna] Unfinished stories are a plague, Mindy's BBS had lots of 'em! What're your ideas about ensuring complete stories?

[Sapphire] For a featured author, I wait until a story is finished before adding it to the site. Except for Eddie's, his could go on forever! For the e-zine, I trust in the authors and pray to the Gods!

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] Do you type with one, two or ten fingers?

[Sapphire] Four or five fingers, I am NOT a touch typist!

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] What prompted you to contact authors from the newgroups?

[Sapphire] If I like their work, I tell them so! They may be thinking of quitting writing what I like, so I encourage them and offer them a outlet for it. It's really selfish on my part, I want to read their work, even if I have to publish it myself!

[MonicaS] Feedback is a problem, thousands of readers and so few e- mails!

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] I have seen a lot of authors comment that it was you taking them out of the newsgroups that kept them going!

[Sapphire] Guilty as charged!

[CleoK] You mean the spam groups, not newsgroups, right? ;)

[Sapphire] It's a shame what has happened to them!

[MonicaS] Sapphire was there before the newsgroups were only spam!

[CleoK] Oh. Well that's different then! ;)

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] You should never mention a ladies age Monica!

[Lorna] They WERE a good resource, but not for long when the spammer porn started up. You still post there much?

[Sapphire] I used to post my back issue stories to them, but time constraints hamper me now.

[CleoK] I never check the newsgroups anymore and have only posted one of my stories there!

[Sapphire] I check the groups a.s.s.tg and a.s.s.mod ever other day, you never know what gems might be hiding in there! Look at the authors I found by looking before!

[Mindy] What do you think a fiction site will look like 5 or 10 years from now?

[Sapphire] With the way or speed things change, only the Gods know!

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] Do you think that more of an audience could be found for your site, by posting to a newsgroup?

[Sapphire] Probably, but as it is, I don't know how many would visit any site. Mindy's servers are so filled, it would slow them down too much to have her turn on logging for my site.

[CleoK] I would post my stories to a.s.s.tg but now my ISP won't let me use a fake return e-mail as part of their rules, so I'll get spammed for sure.

[Mindy] Sapphire, how many stories have you been sent over the years by somebody who takes somebody else's story and puts their name on it?

[Sapphire] I haven't had that problem as far as I know of. I get the stories directly from the writers.

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] Have you ever had a problem with the pay sites raiding your stories?

[Sapphire] About the pay sites, I don't know. I did have a problem with a pay site when they started up. An author gave me a story, then sold it to them, but forgot to tell me! So they freaked when I posted it to the newsgroups!

[Lorna] Some pay sites have 'attacked' like sharks when they 'sniff' a potential 'rip-off', yet I've never heard about you or Mindy 'auditing' them. Do you get some sort of pay back?

[Sapphire] If your asking if I have access to the pay site. Yes, but thanks to a fan, not from the sites themselves.

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] Is the story quality any better at the pay sites?

[Sapphire] . I see many of the same authors there, I only hope that the site has worked out a deal with the creator of the story, but that is really between them and the authors. I do try to mention to the writers about a story I have seen elsewhere, but then leave it to them to take any action.

[CleoK] I sold them one of my stories "Atlantis" and that was all.

[Sapphire] I can't argue with you selling them your stories, I know I can't pay anyone for them.

[CleoK] There was a big fight because of a pay site posting some unauthorized stories and some of other authors got mad at me for even dealing with that site at all.

[Sapphire] The net's tradition has been a "free exchange" of information, pay sites of ANYTHING ruffle those feathers for many. The pay sites have many fine stories and I am sad that I can't share them with everyone else.

[CleoK] That's the sad trade-off, authors can get some money for selling a few stories but may loose a number of fans.

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] What is wrong with selling stories for money?

[Sapphire] Nothing, it's just the limited distribution because of the money involved. I assume that many just can't afford these sites.

[MonicaS] Anne, some people think you should only sell to "good people".

[CleoK] Anne-Mal, I meant on the internet you may get a smaller reader base by selling to a pay site than offering the stories for free, so less fans.

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] Oh, I thought you meant that you got some type of backlash.

[CleoK] I did get backlash big time for the one story I did sell to that site.

[Sapphire] Cleo did get a backlash on the mailing list we were both on, for a while it got real nasty. The thing is that Cleo still writes and many of the others don't anymore. "The best revenge is living well!"

[CleoK] I had already signed and mailed a contract to sell the story when this issue of the pay site posting "free" stories came up.

[Chrissy] What religion are you? You use the expression Gods, so I assume it isn't Christian.

[Sapphire] No, I am Wiccan Clergy.

[Chrissy] Same here. Though I have a interest in other forms of Shamanism.

[CleoK] I'm just Cromexx :)

[Lorna] Do you and Mindy consider your sites mutually exclusive or complimentary? If the latter, do you plan to 'cleanup' your redundancies?

[Sapphire] NO, we are neither!

[Mindy] They should be redundant, in the old days BBS's closed down without warning all the time, same goes for websites now! I believe that an author should have the right to post their stories anywhere they can, be they pay or free!

[Lorna] That point well taken!

[Sapphire] If Mindy has stories from authors on my site, I will not remove them and I don't want her to either!

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] I remember you said that your hard drive crashed and you lost many stories Sapphire. It would be a shame if that happened again!

[CleoK] You into VRML (Virtual Reality Modeling Language) for web pages? I'm doing a TG VRML for example.

[Sapphire] Yes, I am Cleo. I have been trying to find a VRML world that lets me customize my Avatar.

[CleoK] Did you try a VRML shareware editor? I found a really good one last night. In fact, I registered the software just this afternoon, that's how impressed I was with it

[Chrissy] I always wondered what that Avatar stuff was on your site.

[Sapphire] The Avatar was to 3D assistant, a wonderful program, but when they sold it to a major company, they stopped it's advances.

[Chrissy] Not sure that I can use it on a Apple Mac.

[Sapphire] No Chrissy, it was window only

[Chrissy] Oh well.

[Sapphire] I stick to the Windows format, maybe because I'm a MCP

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] So everyone get in your thanks to Sapphire before I close the log and you can all talk freely.

[sue] Sapphire, thanks again for the work you've done. It's time for me to take my leave, thanks for the chat!

[Sapphire] Your welcome Sue, thanks for supporting me. JRD, while your here, I wanted to tell you that I'm really enjoying your avatar series!

[JRD] Thanks

[Mindy] Sapphire AKA Daniel Boone, you were a pioneer of TG story sites and you should be proud of that fact!

[Sapphire] Thanks Mindy, but can I lose the coon skin cap, it clashes with my skirt!

[Regal] Okay, Danielle Boone.

[Mindy] Yes, but think of all those fur boots with the spike heels!

[CleoK] Sapphire, if it wasn't for your site, I would have never gotten brave enough to post my stories!

[Sapphire] Cleo, you sent me more contest entries then of all the others combined, with all those stories inside you, you would have "published" anyway!

[CleoK] Thanks :) I can't believe it myself how many stories I wrote back then at one time.

[Sapphire] I'm just lucky you picked me!

[CleoK] Well you were the one that came up with the nickname for me!

[Regal] Thank you, Sapphire!

[JRD] Thanks, Sapphire!

[bashful] You have a fantastic site, Sapphire!

[Lorna] I found your FTP-site when there was a reference to it on Mindy's BBS (I think). Thanx HEAPS!!

[Sapphire] Thank you everyone! Thanks to Mindy for use of her server and Anne for setting this whole thing up!

[Chrissy] Thanks a lot for chatting with us Sapphire. And a big thanks for being the one to open me up to this community. When I found your site it was like the Gods had blessed me.

[JRD] Night, Sapphire

[CleoK] Okay, thanks Sapphire, from the real CleoK, not the fake CleoK, but I'm sure the fake CleoK feels the same way too!

Editor's note: You had to be there to understand this!

[Lorna] Applause...Cheers...and sundry Kudos!!

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] Do you have any closing remarks Sapphire?

[Sapphire] Yes I do Anne, and I want to thank you again for inviting me! I was honored to be asked!

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] Well, you were the first site that I found when I first got on the web.

[Sapphire] I'm glad that you did, there are so many people that are on the net for years looking, but not finding any good story places. That's why I do this!

[Moderator_Anne-Mal] That is one of the reasons I got involved to thank others for their efforts.

[Sapphire] First, Thanks! This has made me feel really wanted!

Second, I need help and not just on the psych couch! If anyone wants to help with the site, please send me an e-mail. The help I need is formatting the stories, I can even supply the software! I use mostly HotDog Pro and a notepad replacement.

I really enjoy reading the wonderful stories from all you great writers, so never assume that you don't have an audience, you always have me!

I gotta go! Got to run to the little web-mistress room, nite all!